Margaret Wheldon (Diguina) - contradictory DNA evidence.

There's also mention of a "Colonel Robert B Caverly" who wrote about the wars,and Grookin and Drake ..I think the Drake mentioned is the Drake we all know of.

Wendy sue Hall- "Tribal Records" ?? you must have me confused with another in this discussion. I'm just a curious on looker and watching with deep family related interest.

Jliptrap.us/gen/whilden.ttmwhilden-Dorchester,Jliptrap.us Not a link,but this person explains alot of how Gabriel went from Blacksmith to Fisherman,also gives the the argument against "Oquina" being his wife.Pretty good at explaining the reason against not for.I see so much Against not for.I also contacted Jesse Little Doe who is reinstating the Wampanoag language,she said she has never heard of the mentioned people"Wheldon with Oquina.She also said there are numerous tribes among the Wampanoags and it may be a good idea to hire a Genealogist? But I think they would also find more against and not for? I haven't seen one record contrary to him being married to an English woman,most say The Margaret the lawsuit about his will was "Margaret Matthews Wheldon" Who traveled back to England with her Brother the "Rev.Matthews" after Gabriel died.If I find anything I will post,but so far I haven't.

You can message Jesse Little Doe on Facebook if you like,She has a FB page an I instance messaged her.Maybe you could get better results?

Good work, Suzanne, especially interesting that this does "not" seem to be a story among Wampanoag.

Makes me think it's entirely from the BeArce book in the early 1930s, which cited "family oral tradition" for the Oguina / Wheldon marriage.

Well,if I'm getting some confused with the discussion I apologize,I just post whatever I find for whomever it interests.I come across so much information,so many names on old records,I need to focus attention also on others in my tree,I have many,about 1000 links,this was just one on my paternal Grandmother's side.It was interesting to me that one of my ancestors sailed on "Drake's" last expedition and when connecting dots came across this.Sometimes when you stop looking you find it.I have found that I will look for say a pen I've lost,and then give up,but when I go look for my keys I find my pen!Maybe while I'm searching other branches I'll find something new about this one?

Who our forefathers really were part 2
http://nebekerfamilyhistory.com/nebgen/Elewatum_part_3.html

Comment from
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/bearse/320/
Re: Myth of Mary Hyanno

As an ancestor of Augustine Bearse some things should be cleared up re: Mary Hyanno.

Franklin BeArce invented much more than the Hyanno myth, serious genealogists should not perpetuate his "research".

Sorry, Elwin. For some reason I was thinking you were the one in Mass., USA I spoke with before. They had access to the tribal records. The re-established tribes (4 known at the moment) have been actively collecting and removing family records and any related documents from the public eye. Only those with access and who are active members of those tribes are allowed to see them. I understand there are some very singular pieces in there archives. As I'm not a Paying member, I don't have access (They require that you also live in the same area as the tribe in question and I've lived in the South for many a year.) I think it was your profile pic that had me thinking you were the other person. My mistake.

The Margaret Wheldon stories, whichever one you see, does seem to be a non-native american issue.

I agree, Susanne. There are times I just have to step away from it all for a long time, before I can find what I was looking for.

https://books.google.com/books?id=6c0pAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontco... This book is basically ORAL traditions and mixed documented facts . Well worth a look over- This was the 1st book I accquired back almost 50 years ago to try and learn about some of those ORAL tradition's . Today with the improvements in DNA - and more &more family related links coming together we may be able to come up with a PROVEN line with DNA .

So who is going to correct the record and "fix" Giles Hopkin's wife's mothers information? It seems pretty clear, as Erica has pointed out that she was a Wheldon, but not of American Indian descent and as Suzanne has said. Giles is a 7th great grandfather of mine so it is important to me but I haven't done the research to be the one in authority to change this.

Is there another place that needs to be updated?

Catherine "Catorne" Hopkins

- tree set as daughter of Jane & Gabriel Whelden, wife of Giles Hopkins
- "about" text:

Gabriel Whelden (c1583-1654)  married (1) about 1610 Unknown;  [possibly m(2) 3 Aug 1617 Mary Davis]   m(3) Jane;  m.(4) 1649 Margaret Matthews. Lived in Basford, Nottinghamshire, until moving to Yarmouth, Massachusetts, in 1638; then in 1648 to Lynn, and later to Malden, where he died.

Children were baptized at St Leodegarius Church, Basford.

3. Catherine (Kathren, Catone) Whelden (bapt. 6 Mar 1616/7-1689) m.9 Oct 1639 Giles Hopkins (1608-1689) son of Stephen Hopkins, both of the Mayflower 11 Nov 1620.  Eastham, MA

====

In other words, it is possible Gabriel had more wives than the two we currently show:

- Jane unknown
- Margaret Matthews, his surviving widow

But we don't have good sourcing to flesh out the "4 wife theory" so I've left it as text reference only.

Oguina has been disconnected from this family.

Homework for whomever this concerns.I was going over the Franklin BeArce.On Rootsweb,Rand and Nancy Robinson,Maplymou-L Archives give the microfilm number of the Manuscript.Microfilm 84/5717 library of congress p.2. In the summer of 1933 Bro.A Merlin Steed came in contact with Franklin Ele-wa-tum Bearse who had Proven his identity as an Indian before the courts,a Saticoke and Eastern Indian.ZERVIAH Newcomb's Diary A true Chronicle of the BeArce family.Certified an original sworn statement (by Franklin Bearse) now on file in the office of the Litchfield County District court in Connecticut.So my question is how can someone dispute a Sworn statement on File? Maybe we should fact check? And see if we can find copies of the Diary?

Hi Suzanne

See the "debunk" comments here

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/bearse/126/

And there is more. It sounds like he was a con artist frankly.

This comment is by Martin Hollick, a notable current colonial americas genealogist:

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/bearse/259/
"Why Franklyn Bearce is an Unreliable Source"

Apparently location of the "diary" is currently unknown:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BEARSE/2000-06/096178...

"[My Aunt] Mary Caroline saw the original diary and stated that it was written in
India Ink and on different kinds of paper. Some of [the pages were] of poor
quality and many of the early pages were yellow with age and hardly readable.

But the supplement codgial [sic...codicil], the portion copied, was written by
Zerviah in her old age assisted by her step daughter Anna Bearce on a fair
quality of paper, and was readable and well preserved."

I don't know if it is laying in some descendants attack or tucked in an old bible, or if it has passed into the hands of a descendant who doesn't know what it is. Perhaps it exists no more except in the memory of Franklin Bearce ...

Yes Erica,It is compelling,I read somewhere that Franklin(I think) was saying he was 4 years old when this was told to him.So maybe if he didn't get the story completely right was repeating what he knew from the memory of a child,and may not have claimed it maliciously.I know when we're Young and our parents or relatives say something,some things "Stick" in our memory more than others.My mother who was full French decent called me her little"Papoose" and I have the features and was born with the dark hair of a Native American,in fact I was roped at age 4 or 5 ,something I will never forget by a neighbor boy in Az, who was a year or two older,he had a cowboy hat on and rope,he said I'm the cowboy your the Indian and lassoed me,while I was turning blue and could not scream,my mom looked out the kitchen window,(or I'd be dead) and rushed out.She took the little blonde boy by the ear and took him to his mom.I heard him getting spanked.I stayed away from him!Not saying this as Proof of my heritage,but I have had more things happen.As an adult an Indian dressed in Skins and feathers did a circle dance around me on my way walking down a mountain road where I lived in Crestline Ca.More things like this,but not legal proof.I know somewhere I'm connected to a tribe and nation,but I may never know,and that's okay too.It would be nice though to find.If I find a branch here I will definitely help others,if not,then it's not.I think BeArce was not lying,but until we see any proof we can't prove his story.But maybe through other writers we'll see something?

Wendy Sue Hall

I was wondering if you could give us an overview of "known" Wampanoag / European marriages, particularly who, where, when. I don't actually know much that's proven in this area; I am more aware of the tribal / Negro interactions in New Bedford, Nantucket & Martha's Vineyard at later date, in the whaling era.

Yes,I have names of intermarriages,I'll get back with you.

And there are quite a few,in 1621,relationship wasn't bad between the two,better than what would happen after.So there was intermarriage.I'll list names and more a little later.

First Marriages between Indians and English were on Cape Cod,these families claim their descent from the Wampanoag.The Mayflower,Winslows,Bradfords,Wings,From the"Fortune Parties," Bassetts,Wixons,Doanes,Ellises,It is said Robert Wixton married a "White Man" married the Princess daughter of Chief Aspinet,they married within the tribe until in 1812 during the Revolutionary War a descendant of fought and lost his leg,and married a White Woman.Another woman of a (Chief Sassacus who was beheaded by the Mohawks( think the same ) married Sausamong a Ponkapoag both later adopted as Wamanoags,another of the Chief's daughters named Tock-ah -mah , "Mother of several",John Hammond claimed his descent from her,John Hammond married Rebecca Amos in Mashpee,she being the daughter of Blind Amos a Wampanoag preacher his descendants claim their bloodline from Chief Sassacus and the Pequot and Montauk tribes although mostly the Wampanoags.

I meant Robert Wixton who was a White Man

Of the Northeastern part of Groton,Connecticut,The most prominent Pequot descendants were(last names first)Shauddaub,Charles,Charles Jr.ashbow and Abner.Quinnemeezun,John.Sampson,Quiumps.Canujaugh,Jeffry,Pankeese,Abner,Charles,Sampson,Tuweese.Weezsul,Samuel.Meezun,Peter.Oui-Umps,Johnson.Quaqcheetes,Dan.Neezohkunnump.In 1880 Eunice Manwee,the last Pure Blooded Pequot Indian died.So apparently there was alot of intermarriages going on.The Poem Called The Pokanok explains this in poetic form.

Robert Wixon- Wixam- Wickson-Wesame- and other Variations of the spelling. Recorded name Eastham Official Record- 1655- "Wesame" . Just for the record . FIRST Native Americans to meet the Pilgrims- The Nawset People. Encounter Beach- Second - Samoset Sachem Maine Coastal Tribes) & Squanto(Translator-Nawset). 3rd meeting with pilgrims- Sachem Massasoit & others.

Glad you're here Elwin!Thanks for the added Wixon Information.And to everyone participating in the discussion I walked in on.Suz

The Pokanok.I met a man,a dark skinned man upon the cod shore.Upon inquiring what he was,"My Folks Were Here Before!"In Vain I wondered what he meant.Could he be a Redskin true?I stopped in great astonishment,and asked,"My Friend What Are You"?"If I was to tell you the truth,"he softly answered me,"You'd think it was a falsehood,but it could stranger be.Back in the days of long ago when all the Cape was ours,Our girls grew up like buds on trees and blossomed out like flowers.The early Settlers hereabouts did love the Indian maids,they took them from our small Wigwams and took them off to fade.In almost every family descended from the first,White men to settle on Cape Cod.The Indian Blood does burst.(an old poem,not sure what year it was written,I don't know who the Author was?)

The last of the poem...Today the Wampanoag tribe is small and scattered here and there,you may find,to amaze yourself,a full blood Redskin rare.Our Chiefs were known from coast to coast:King Philip,Massasoit,Aspinet,Caleb Popmonet,few of you don't know it.Our tribe we now call Wampanoag we called it Pokanok.But history and our records can show of our tribe alot."

Sorry, Erica. I may have some further information, but most of what I have has already been added to the tree as far as the N. American marriages are concerned.

Working on a Family book at the moment.

If I find anything else I think I may have missed, I'll try to send it to you. Have to verify everything and this project could take a year or more to do in what free time I can find....

I would like to look into getting "Great Grandma's Book" out there, but as it's really owned by a distant cousin, I'm not sure I will be able to any time soon.

:/

At a Place called " Chawum" perhaps some of what others search for may found !!

The Scottish fur traders arrived in the colonies largely as single men. The Scots were so compatible with the Indians that after 1750 nearly all the fur traders among the Eastern Indians were Highland Scots. They soon aligned with Native American women. These marriages facilitated trade because Native wives usually taught their husbands their tribal languages. It was well acknowledged the key roles that Native wives played in their husband's operations.
Historically there were a number of parallels between the American Indians and the Highland Scots. The two groups had much in common. The Cherokee admired the Highland Scots whom they considered fellow warriors. Each had fought lengthy battles, stretching over centuries, both against one another and against English speaking invaders. Members of both groups being driven from their homelands deepened the parallel. Both were mountain people with proud, independent, warrior societies who gloried in a good fight, rough games and reckless living. Each had achieved partial, but by no means complete, success in fending off invasions. As indigenous peoples, their social structures reflected numerous similarities. Each viewed land as essentially a communal resource, not a commodity to be bought and sold for profit. Each identified itself by bands or clans, and since chiefdom descended through lineage, each devised a system flexible enough to allow selection of the best person for the job. Both were clan societies which considered loyalty to the clan their first obligation. An Indian's insistence on vengeance for the killing of a member of his clan was perfectly understood by an 18th century Highlander with a similar custom. There were even parallels between their harvest ceremonies. Both cultures were primarily oral, with folklore and stories passed on to the children containing the distilled wisdom of their people. Finally, the deep wisdom and strength of character that each group has displayed over the centuries has allowed them to endure their calamities with dignity

Elwin - had you seen this?

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/-Irish-town-builds-memori...

The Choctaws themselves felt an affinity with the Irish people because of this hardship and, on hearing of their suffering, they wished to contribute. Both were communities who had fallen foul of the conquests of others which had in turn led to loss of property, forced migration and exile, mass starvation, and cultural suppression (most notably language).