Mariamne, Princess of Judaea - Is her daughter Illegitimate?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Wednesday, April 25, 2012
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4/25/2012 at 3:06 AM

Regarding her marriage/ betrothal with [Gaius Julius Archelaus Antiochus Epiphanes Gaius Julius Archelaus Antiochus Epiphanes of Commagene] (b circa 38 to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, King of Commagene and Iotape Philadelphus)

which both Wikipedia & Wagner, Sir Anthony Richard; ‘Pedigree and Progress: Essays in the Genealogical Interpretation of History’ – says resulted in the birth of a daughter: Berenike of Commagene (b after 50), I can find the following '''contradictory''' sources on the net:

*>“Epiphanes was betrothed in 43/44 to the princess Drusilla, who was a daughter of Judean King Agrippa I. Agrippa thought that Epiphanes would embrace the religion Judaism and Jewish customs. However, Epiphanes never married Drusilla because he refused to adopt the customs and religion of the Jews. The marriage between Epiphanes and Drusilla had not been contracted on the death of Agrippa I. '''Later Epiphanes was betrothed to Drusilla’s sister Mariamne. In 49/50, the brother of Mariamne and Drusilla, King Agrippa II had cancelled the wedding between Epiphanes and Mariamne, because again Epiphanes refused to adopt the customs and religion of the Jews.'''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_of_Commagene

*>“Mariamne (born 34) was a daughter of King Herod Agrippa I. She was betrothed by her father to Gaius Julius Archelaus Antiochus Epiphanes, first son of King Antiochus IV of Commagene, but this marriage had not yet been enacted upon her father's death. '''Her brother Agrippa II enacted the marriage once he had been made tetrarch in around 49/50. From which marriage was derived a daughter, whose name was Berenice.'''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariamne_(daughter_of_Herod_Agrippa_I) this article is unreferenced.

*>'''Berenice was the daughter of Mariamne, (daughter of Herod Agrippa I), and Julius Archealus.[1] She was born sometime after 50 AD. After her parents had divorced, she lived with her mother in Alexandria.[2]'''
Notes
>>1.Josephus, Jewish Antiquities, xix. 9. § 1.

>>2.Josephus, Jewish Antiquities, xx.7.1

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berenice_(daughter_of_Mariamne)

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaius_Julius_Archelaus_Antiochus_Epiph...

It seems to me to be doubtful that a relationship with an Herodian Princess would have been allowed to have been consummated unless legal ties had already been put in place. (Unless this 'Mary' claims another virgin birth :-).
The title 'of Commagene' attributed to her daughter also seems to me to indicate legitimate acknowledgement by the father.

Without other evidence, I'm offering the provisional theory that the relationship was NOT considered a legal marriage only by the Jewish authorities - because of his refusal to be circumcised-; but that, Mariamne's brother, Agrippa II, decided that he wasn't having the same situation occur as had when his father, Agrippa I was alive, when the marriage with Drusilla had fallen through on this point - and so went ahead with a legal Roman ceremony as sufficient.

This implies that Mariamne & Drusilla's brother - Agrippa II - was less of a devout Jew than his father. (Might he have been Christian? I must still check. His relationship with Josephus is in the era of the development of 'Christianised' Jews.)
Alternatively, it might be possible that Mariamne took matters into her own hands. Less likely, in my opinion, given the status of women - but her grandmother, Berenike, (for whom Mariamne's daughter is named) appears to have openly conducted an extra marital affair with Titus, so perhaps this isn't out of the question either.

4/25/2012 at 3:13 AM

Sorry - the Berenike [Julia Berenice, Princess of Judaea, Queen of Chalcis] I'm referring to is Mariamne's sister - not her grandmother.

Mariam's daughter was also named Berenike [Berenike].

7/14/2013 at 3:04 PM

Oh damn. Justin Durand I've just merged the Julius Archelaus we created as the nephew of Saulus (Paul) in line with
Eisenman, Robert. The New Testament Code. London, Watkins Publishing. 2006 p 1009 - with my eye on eradicating the duplicated Mariamne's as the wife (documented above),
but in the process, taking my other eye off of the tree conflict created by a consequent disagreement in his parents :-(

I'm backing away from solving that now, so am simply going to recreate the Julius Archelaus as nephew of Saul, and unstack the duplicated Mariamnes. I'll send you a new management request on that one. Sorry, time to go to bed here in South Africa - it's after midnight and my brain has obviously turned into a pumpkin.

7/14/2013 at 3:18 PM

Add Manager option appears to be out of action today. Justin Please add yourself as manager and curator of this new Julius Archelaus.

The question now remains as to whether there were actually two men by this name: Gaius Julius Archelaus Antiochus Epiphanes and that's why the above confusion about Mariamne's marriage to the Gaius one.

Thoughts anyone? :-(

4/8/2023 at 6:11 PM

I looked through Wagner's book at https://archive.org/details/pedigreeprogress0000wagn/page/174/mode/.... I cannot find a mention of Mariamne or Berenike in it. Do we have a page citation for the Wagner source? Also, it's worth mentioning that Anthony Wagner is not a reliable genealogy source. He is one of those researchers who tried to create rather fantastical descents from antiquity.

Josephus' Jewish Antiquities says " AND thus did king Agrippa depart this life. But he left behind him a son, Agrippa by name, a youth in the seventeenth year of his age, and three daughters; one of which, Bernice, was married to Herod, his father's brother, and was sixteen years old; the other two, Mariamne and Drusilla, were still virgins; the former was ten years old, and Drusilla six. Now these his daughters were thus espoused by their father; Marlatone [Mariamne] to Julius Archclaus Epiphanes, the son of Antiochus, the son of Chelcias; and Drusilla to the king of Commagena. But when it was known that Agrippa was departed this life, the inhabitants of Cesarea and of Sebaste forgot the kindnesses he had bestowed on them, and acted the part of the bitterest enemies; for they cast such reproaches upon the deceased as are not fit to be spoken of; and so many of them as were then soldiers, which were a great number, went to his house, and hastily carried off the statues[23] of this king's daughters, and all at once carried them into the brothel-houses, and when they had set them on the tops of those houses, they abused them to the utmost of their power, and did such things to them as are too indecent to be related." (BOOK XIX, Chapter 9)

and continuing...

"... And when Agrippa had received these countries as the gift of Caesar, he gave his sister Drusilla in marriage to Azizus, king of Emesa, upon his consent to be circumcised; for Epiphanes, the son of king Antiochus, had refused to marry her, because, after he had promised her father formerly to come over to the Jewish religion, he would not now perform that promise. He also gave Mariamne in marriage to Archelaus, the son of Helcias, to whom she had formerly been betrothed by Agrippa her father; from which marriage was derived a daughter, whose name was Bernice." (BOOK XX, Chapter 7).

4/8/2023 at 6:21 PM

It is weird. Flavius Josephus, the author, identifies Julius Archclaus Epiphanes, the son of Antiochus, the son of Chelcias, and also says Archelaus, the son of Helcias, to whom she had formerly been betrothed by Agrippa her father.

I suspect there is some confusion going on here. Perhaps it is a translation issue from the original Greek?

4/8/2023 at 6:25 PM

"Ἀγρίππας μὲν οὖν ὁ βασιλεὺς τρόπῳ τοιούτῳ κατέστρεψεν τὸν βίον, γένει δὲ αὐτῷ κατελέλειπτο υἱὸς μὲν Ἀγρίππας ἄγων ἔτος ἑπτακαιδέκατον, τρεῖς δὲ θυγατέρες, ὧν ἡ μὲν Ἡρώδῃ τοῦ πατρὸς ἀδελφῷ γεγάμητο Βερενίκη τὸ ἑκκαιδέκατον ἔτος γεγονυῖα, παρθένοι δ᾽ ἦσαν αἱ δύο Μαριάμμη τε καὶ Δρούσιλλα, δεκαετὴς μὲν ἡ ἑτέρα, ἑξαετὴς δὲ Δρούσιλλα· [355] καθωμολόγηντο δ᾽ ὑπὸ τοῦ πατρὸς πρὸς γάμον Ἰουλίῳ μὲν Ἀρχελάῳ τοῦ Χελκίου παιδὶ Μαριάμμη, Δρούσιλλα δὲ Ἐπιφανεῖ, τοῦ δὲ τῆς Κομμαγηνῆς βασιλέως Ἀντιόχου υἱὸς ἦν οὗτος." (BOOK XIX, Chapter 9)

4/8/2023 at 6:26 PM

"καὶ Μαριάμμην δ᾽ ἐξέδωκεν Ἀρχελάῳ τῷ Ἑλκίου παιδὶ πρότερον ὑπὸ Ἀγρίππα τοῦ πατρὸς ἁρμοσθεῖσαν αὐτῷ, καὶ γίνεται θυγάτηρ αὐτοῖς ὄνομα Βερενίκη." (BOOK XX, Chapter 7).

4/8/2023 at 6:48 PM

Yes, it is a translation error!

From what I can make out we have Julius Archelaus of Chalcius with Mariamne, and Ephiphanes, the son of Antiochus, king of Commagene, with Drusilla.

The translator of the English version got confused I think with the similar names. Google Translate butchers Ancient Greek, so it is hard to make out the sentences properly though. Do we know anyone who can read Ancient Greek?

4/8/2023 at 11:29 PM

'It's all Greek to me' (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
Tamas, do you want to make the changes, or do you want to tell me where they should be? I'm happy with either - but not up to speed on a Discussion I had 10 years ago.
PS Your work here is fantastic! Thank you.

4/9/2023 at 2:29 PM

I moved Berenike to be a daughter of Julius Archelaus and Mariamne. I also removed "of Commagene" from her name.

I cut the connection between Marriamne and Gaius Julius Archelaus Antiochus Epiphanes

4/9/2023 at 10:52 PM

Go Tamas :-)

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