Created profile events - can they be shared / edited?

Would "add profile to this event" work? Not that I want to be added to events I didn't participate in .... Although time travel might be fun.

My old hobby-horse.

There is so much wrong with timeline events in Geni, I don't know where to start. Timeline events are an integral part of conventional genealogy, and Geni is the only site that does not support them.

The Projects feature was recently created/expanded to take the place of Timeline Events. An event such as 'The Alamo' would conventionally be created as a timeline event (not a Project), to which profiles are tagged. It would automatically be included in the relevant profiles and become an integral part of the tree.

The difference? Timeline Events are included in gedcom (because they are a standard genealogical approach, a part of the tree) - Projects are not. Both Geni import and export gedcoms will strip timeline events from the profile. No other site does this.

Generally, you get a better view of the profile if you are not a Geni member (that is, not logged in). This view includes the Timeline following the About section. A standard genealogical presentation. The main reason Timelines are not used in Geni is because their presentation is too obscure to members.

There is a problem with this view - the events are all over the place, and not in chronological sequence. I would like to see the calender from which they are created.

Dan. I would not advise using Timeline Events. Geni does not support them. Revisions? - there aren't any. Notifications? - there aren't any. Geni decided to develop Projects instead.

As Timeline Events are not conventionally displayed (to members), this is causing unnecessary work on profiles.

The various standards within Geni always state that you should list the person's children in the About section. This is guaranteed to cause problems. Does everyone remember to keep mother and father in sync? What do you do if there is a difference? - it's time-consuming to check.

Even now, Geni will automatically list the kids in the Timeline. Why manually repeat this list in About, because of a fault in Geni's presentation of a profile?

Timeline Events used to be shared - we used this feature extensively, and all contributed to the event. I suspect that sharing capability was removed when Revisions were introduced, and it was discovered that Events were not included.

We are looking into the timeline updates that have been reported. Projects are not meant as a replacement for timeline events. Projects are a means for a group of users to share permission to collaborate on a group of profiles.

Michelle. Dan must create a Project for The Alamo to accomplish the linking of the participants - there is no other option.

As this is normally a Timeline function, Projects have replaced Timelines.

Ken

Tests that Dan and I did has led me to support some of your conclusions. I find ancestry.com timelines boring (and often erroneous) but a whole lot easier for the records and events to create a chronology than trying to summarize it in the overview, meant to be narrative.

This does not take away from my enjoyment of projects. It creates a unique view and a unique collaborative environment.

Erica. I agree. To use a Project as a Project, that's fine. But - they are increasingly being used as an integral and permanent part of the tree, and are being used where an Event should be utilised.

How do you currently link one Titanic passenger to another? - the project! This should be in the tree itself.

Timeline events do not have the collaborative structure of media gallery, discussions, merge center, overview, ease of adding / removing profiles, associated projects, nor are projects constrained by a single time limited event. If all I know is that my ancestor showed up someplace sometime, or did something somewhere, or had an attribute or a title, but I don't know when or where - I can represent that in a project only.

Erica. Genealogy uses undated Timeline Events for the situations you are describing - Geni displays them well. I've used an undated Event for inhabitants of a village, for example.

A short time ago, Projects did not have the features you were describing either. Geni chose to expand Projects, not Events. An Event is a result of genealogical research - a Project is simply a means of achieving it (or should be).

As a one time project manager I'd argue that a project is whatever you want it to be.:)

These are all just tools for collection and display. Let's see if Geni can look into sharing permissions on manually created events. If they have a tech restraint, then that's good info. If they are able to change to more read /write permissions, that's even better.

Ah! So Projects are now a permanent part of the tree. Thought so. Gedcoms and AncestrySync will remain questionable.

I don't know "permanent.". It's an application and one I find usable and useful.

Excuse my lack of interest in data interchangeability. I come from a world of proprietary databases charging $250 for one glimpse.

Ken I think you're trying to say one application or feature in Geni precludes another. Michelle clearly stated that is not the case. I have every reason to believe it is so and none not to.

That's exactly what I'm saying. As Events no longer perform their genealogical function, Projects are being used - outside the tree (or incorporated into the tree, however you look at it.)

If you build something they will come, and they may use it in unexpected fashion. Perhaps projects are an easier tool. Embrace the new! :)

What I am missing is being able to have events/timeline associated with an project.

The Alamo is one example: It would be nice to list the people who entered / left the garrison at different times -- those sound like events. It makes sense for the Alamo to be a project -- but for a series of events (a.k.a. a Timeline) to be defined within (in association with) the project.

Then, individuals can be associated with the "bigger event" (e.g. The Alamo") or with individual events (entered the garrison as part of the xx troop; left the garrison to find Sam Houston and supplies).

Then there is a project like the The Republic of Texas (TROT) ... within which one could embed (associate) the Alamo timeline within the TROT's larger timeline. Anyone in the Alamo would also show up in association with the TROT project ... and probably associated with several different events with that TROT history/timeline (e.g. Sam Houston).

But right now projects don't have timelines or events, so they can't show up on an individual's timeline...

re: GEDCOM ... I *do* agree that all profile Timeline events should be exported.

Importing is far more challenging to resolve ... and to do so, one needs to be able to search Timelines for strings to be able to collect profiles associated 'common events' into a project.

I'm beginning to think of projects as a means of providing some 'coherence' to a collection of different genealogical 'artifacts' -- profiles, events, places, media, documents.

Timelines, as such, are not really an 'artifact' in and of themselves ... they are simply a means for displaying a set of events which have something in common (e.g. a profile in common, or a place in common for a certain time interval).

Dan. If you put the link to the Event at the top of the Project, the Project then becomes the workspace/discussion space, and the Event contains the result of the research.

This is the way I saw it working - the Event then contains the permanent research and is part of the tree, and the Project is a temporary area that could eventually be deleted. In some cases, of course, the Project would be continually on-going.

The way you are describing it, how do you get from the tree to a Project? This is genealogy, and the tree is the focus of the research.

As soon as you think of a Project as a permanent repository of data, problems arise as it does not follow any genealogical convention.

From Michelle's comments, Geni sees Projects as just a collaboration area - I do too - no permanent data within Projects.

I'm not sure what you mean by "at the top of the project" ... Just put a link in the text of the "About"? And how does one define that event? (e.g. within one "reference" profile?) And then associate with other profiles by editing that event? What happens if you remove the event from the original profile, but not the others?

re: event contains the research ... but right now, there is no place to be a "home" for the event other than a single person's profile. That doesn't really make sense for many kinds of events. (Whose profile is the 'reference' for a family reunion event? An where do all the medias associated with that event end up? And what happens when that 'reference profile' turns out to not being a member of the "event" at all? (e.g. they were never at the Alamo, despite the original profiles "assertion").

More stuff to check out!

I guess I'll stop now, as it's all academic. Timeline Events don't work, so I'd advise against using them anyway.

I think of projects as a presentation tool to provide further information and a analysis, particularly on larger scale events and places, of my tree. I'm a family researcher. Facts without context are not interesting to me. Projects help me learn a context.

re: Projects ... what happens to the media if projects are just temporary?

Places are genealogical entities as much as profiles; often treated as simple data fields, but that is really the main source of many genealogical problems which involve locations, because they are not treated as 'entities', but simply as an arbitrary data field.

Ken and your way of thinking about projects is fine!

To use the web efficiently, I would have added the Event within Geni to the External Links section within Wikipedia. This would give researchers a great link between the event and the people within it, which is what Geni is all about.

Use Wikipedia instead of Projects. Using Projects in this fashion seems to be replicating Wikipedia. Geni, by definition and intent , is about people. If you like, Geni becomes the 'people' part of Wikipedia.

If I can anticipate responses, Wikipedia becomes the search engine. Searching Geni Projects is not always productive, as from my own experience you can't tell the difference between 'permanent' projects like the Titanic, and 'collaboration' projects which may contain a jumble of anything.

Putting Geni Events into Wikipedia External Links would put the researcher right into the Geni tree. Great exposure for Geni?

Sure, better interaction with Wikipedia - and Facebook - would be great. And projects vary, they're still new and developing. But the best way is to jump in their and work on projects, they're quite creative and satisfying.