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Tagging Rafi Kornfeld (c)

No Judy, I am not sure. I found the picture together with various other picture from my grandparents and reached the conclusion that they grandmother's marie parents
I could be wrong' including the picture of Josef jerusalem

Oh no!!! Well the picture of Josef Jerusalem is unlabeled in my album. It's on a page with another picture that looks like the same person (Josef Jerusalem) and the picture that is labeled Jacob Rosenbacher (which I uploaded). My cousin thought that all 3 pictures were of Jacob Rosenbacher, but I don't think that's right. I think my grandmother could not identify all of them. As for the picture that you have as Hermine Jerusalem, my grandmother seemed pretty clear (and it's marked on the back of the picture) that it was marie (Rosenbacher) Kornfeld. I have other unidentified pictures. I will upload all of them when I get a chance and you can see if you can identify any of them.

It is interesting that we both of copies of the same pictures. Someone in our great grandfathers' families clearly was distributing them to the family. Just wish they had done a better job of labelling them!

Judy

Judy,
about the picture I think is of Hermine Jerusalem(Vondorfer), this picture and the picture of Josef Jerusalem are framed in identical round frames, about 15 inches diameter. I have them hanging in my home. It seems to me strange that grandmother Marie Kornfeld would have those framed portraits hanging, and saving them throughout the years and wars if they were not of her parents.

So, either both pictures are of Kornfeld or both are of Jerusalem, since, as I said, the frames are identical twins.

Hi Rafi, I just saw your posts. I agree, it does seem odd that your grandmother Marie would have these pictures if they weren't directly related to her. On the other hand, it's odd to me that my grandmother Magda (perhaps they originally belonged to my grandfather Werner) would have photographs of people related to your grandmother -- people she has no direct relation to (even in our interrelated family) that I can see.

I'm inclined to agree with you that they are Marie's parents. Although it's really hard to tell, the resemblance seems more in line with that line of your family than my line. But I just don't understand a) why my grandmother would have these pictures and as I already said, the one of the woman was very clearly labeled as "Marie Kornfeld geb Rosenbacher, Werner Kornfeld's grandmother."

It's a mystery. I guess we will never know for sure.

It makes me think that Werner and his first cousin Ernst must have had some kind of contact (understand that until I saw your family tree, I had no knowledge of your branch of the family; not sure if my father had knowledge before he saw your tree) before leaving Vienna in 1938 and perhaps copies of these pictures were distributed to him (for some unclear reason). I think my grandmother must have discovered these pictures after my grandfather passed away in 1961 and put them in albums and mislabeled them (she was fairly methodical and accurate, so it's hard for me to believe that she would do that, but it just makes more sense that these are your grandmother's parents.).

If your grandmother labeled the picture "Marie Kornfeld geb Rosenbacher, Werner Kornfeld's grandmother." (in English) it indicates that she did it many years after coming to the US, otherwise they would be labeled in German.
So, there could have been some guessing involved...
As I said, these 2 pictures are original photographs, framed in round frames, about 15 inches in diameter. Its not a photo someone sent in a letter...

Sorry Rafi, I misquoted. The back of the picture is labeled in German -- I translated it into English (To be clear, it says: Marie Kornfeld geb Rosenbacher, Werner's Grossmutter. That was rewritten on the page. And my Grandmother Magda's original language was Hungarian. She learned German as a child. As an adult in the U.S. she was relatively fluent in all 3 languages. But as I said earlier, I agree with you. I think the picture is mislabeled by my grandmother. I'm going to scan the first 2 pages of the album as is. I have no idea who the old women are on the second page -- perhaps you can shed some light ...

Rafi, I scanned the two pages. You can look at them and let me know what you think when you get a chance.

Hi Judy & Rafi
Interesting discussion on these lovely photos.
Judy, is there any possibility that you could scan the pages from the Album in colour and at at a higher resolution?

I am probably wrong, but the left hand one (the one in question, I presume) looks a bit like a more modern copy.

Incidentally, it appears that something like sellotape has been used to help stick down the corners; If so that will likely cause damage over time.

At least one has the name of the photographic studio on it, which might help to trace date & place.

Is there anything else on the backs? Are they on thick card ?

Peter

Hi Peter, eventually I will do a better scan ... I wanted to upload them quickly to see if they could be identified. And you may be right -- one or more of them are more "modern" copies, but they have to be at least 50 years old. And yes, it's amazing these pictures have survived given the awful tape that was used to hold them down. They do have the name Szekely, which I think was a common viennese studio at one time -- many of the pictures I have have that name on them. (One of the pictures has "L. Bauer" on it.)I tried researching it once but didn't find much. And they are all on thick card; nothing is on the backs other than what I have detailed here -- and my grandmother copied whatever was on the backs (I think) and wrote the short descriptions that you see.

Judy

I just saw the picture you uploaded. The one picture we have been discussing, of Hermine Jerusalem (Vondoerfer) or of Marie Kornfeld (Rosenbacher) is not the same picture I have hanging at my home 9and which I uploaded as Hermine Jerusalem. Your picture is of a standing person, while mine is just the head. And as I said, it is a original photo and originally framed.
It could be the same person but definitely not the same picture.

Hi Rafi,
Is your photo of Josef Jerusalem identical to Judy''s (left hand photo of the three on the album page) , apart from yours just showing the head?

Looks to me that someone enlarged the heads for your framed photos and that they might indeed be from exactly the same original photo.
That was one reason to look at clear photos side by side.

The photo of Josef has the Szekely studio name.

Peter

Sorry , I meant "That was one reason to look at clear scans side by side. "

Both pictures are portraits, with the round edge fading out to white. It does not look like an elargement (I think the technology was not yet invented. They used larger films and did a contact print.)
The picture of the man, I think is Josef Jerusalem, is not so good preserved, but looks to me like the same person as Judy's picture.
I can not scan them, they are framed and with a glass cover. I photographed them.

Rafi, this may be "out there" but I wonder if my grandmother (or someone else) made the same mistake I once did, which was in my case a while back misidentifying Marie (Jerusalem) Kornfeld as a Kornfeld by birth Perhaps someone had written Marie Kornfeld somewhere near the photo (as in "this belongs to her") and someone assumed that the picture was of Marie (rosenbacher) Kornfeld! Again, still don't understand why these pictures of your grandmothers family were in my family's possession. Will never understand what the connection was!

I looked up about enlargements and looks like optical enlargers were regularly being used by the 1870s. Of couurse Rafi might be wuite right that two separate photos were taken at the same sitting. I think Rafi's photo is clear enough, but rather it is Judy's one that would help to be better to check the fine details.