Geni's PROs Vs. the rest of Geni's members.

Daniel, as a fellow user, I thank you for sharing your comments.

The Geni staff have said publicly they are indeed looking at ways to revise the current system and allow people to add more profiles. Even though they don't always comment on posts -- there are simply so many that it would probably be quite the task! -- it seems that they're absolutely reading, seeing all of the criticisms and feedback, and trying to find ways to make Geni better by implementing some of the suggestions.

I disagree that nothing has been done, however. One clear example of something they've done in response to criticisms is the introduction of Geni Plus. That's a great middle-ground -- it gives you more capabilities than Geni Basic but costs a fraction of what Geni Plus does. That was something that users asked for, and Geni was happy to do it.

So I would say, based on what's been said by staff in comments and on the blog, that there are probably some really great improvements coming down the pike for Geni Basic users, and hopefully we'll be seeing them soon.

Thanks for all of the work you've done on Geni, and I hope you'll stick around.

Thought folks might be interested to learn sometimes, at least, some folks were able to get the Pro Annual rate and pay it in monthly installments.

http://www.geni.com/discussions/73109?msg=586392

Regarding my posting above, I am now in touch with the manager for KATHE HECHT (MULLER), Joshua Miller, who is not a PRO, and even though he is a great nephew of Kathe, he can not merge the profiles.
I asked two PRO cousins to help. One started the process, but the other can not access the profile, albeit beeing a PRO.
Here is a good example how Geni is not only hindering the ability of members to their work, but "DESTROYING THE SITE"
I would like to hear from the CURATORS, who are hard working members with ample knowledge, but who are also most of the time trying to shield Geni from the rage of us "commoners".
WHY SHOULD A SIMPLE MERGE, WHERE BOTH PARTIES AGREE TO DO IT, IS SO COMPLICATED, AND EVEN AFTER ASKING FOR FAVORS FROM PROS, STILL NOT POSSIBLE TO IMPLEMENT?

SHAME ON YOU GENI!!!

You want us to become PROs, but even they are restricted.

If Joshua makes his profile of Kathe a public profile, the merge will go through. The profile can then be made private again afterwood is you so wish.

I just went again on Kathe Hecht's profile to see if there was anything else I could do, when I saw a new addition to Geni's "IMPROVEMENTS" that reads as follows:
"Your family's tree has exceeded the Basic limit of 100 family members."
"Upgrade to add more people to your tree."
I was convinced all along that MONEY is Geni's main reason for the "improvements" it is showering on us, and this is just one more proof!

THEY DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH TO SPELL IT OUT.
THEY THINK THEY'LL SUCCEED BY ATTRITION.

GENI..........SHAME!!! SHAME!!! SHAME!!!

@Remi Pedersen

Thank you!

But why does it have to be so complicated?
Isn't "the big tree" one of the things Geni trompets?
Why not make it easy?

Daniel, excuse me for asking, but how do you think a company like Geni will survive and keep this software online if everything on it was free? Who would pay for their expences? And if everything on Geni was free, who will pay them to keep their servers up, update their software, pay the staff and so on?

It's "complicated" because the americans find their privacy very important.

@Remi Pedersen

I am not against Geni charging for its services.
I am just against how they go about it.
They are trying to make it impossible to work as a non paying member...
so let them spell it out, say that from now on only paying members can do business.
On the other hand, if a PRO member could not affect the merger with the manager's blessing, then why would I want to become a PRO anyway?
On my tree I am dealing with people all over the Globe, and although Americans may be more extreme in regard to their privacy, this is not only an American phenomenon.

Thanks for your responses.

For some basic users there is a work-around for the searching issue.
If you are not logged on to Geni, you can click through on the search screen.
So if you are able to use two different browsers (like internet explorer, google chrome, firefox, opera or safari), then you can log on to Geni with one browser and use the other browser to search.

It is a bit complicated, but still easier then using google.

It may help Geni if they made it a bit more easy to pay. There are a lot of persons who do not like to use credit cards on the internet.

Making it possible to pay for certain privileges for a limited time / limited number of actions may also help. Like paying a certain amount to add a certain number of profiles (instead of paying each month for a plus or pro membership)

Also having partnerships with other companies like Amazon, so you could buy a gift package there may help as well. Having some advertising on Geni may also help. There should be books on subjects that are interesting to Geni users.

@Job Waterreus

I have an Apple computer, so I normally use Safari browser, not google.
But I don't understand what exactly using two different browsers is going to do for me, under what circumstances and for what purpose.
At the same time my problem is merging two profiles that even with the help of two PROs could not be accomplished.
I would appreciate if you could clarify what you mean. I am always happy and ready to learn new tricks to facilitate and ease work.

Thanks.

@Daniel Levy

Geni acts differently on the search screen (http://www.geni.com/search) when you are signed in to Geni or when not.
In one browser it is difficult to switch between the two states, but using two different browsers it is easier.

This does not solve any merging issues only not being able to click through to the profile after searching. You can click through in the one browser and then copy the url (the page address) and copy that in the other browser.

For merging two profiles you can post on http://www.geni.com/discussions/80793
(but the profiles must be public. If not, you can use search to find the profile of the manager. On that profile there is a button to send a message)

@Daniel Levy

Geni acts differently on the search screen (http://www.geni.com/search) when you are signed in to Geni or when not.
In one browser it is difficult to switch between the two states, but using two different browsers it is easier.

This does not solve any merging issues only not being able to click through to the profile after searching. You can click through in the one browser and then copy the url (the page address) and copy that in the other browser.

For merging two profiles you can post on http://www.geni.com/discussions/80793
(but the profiles must be public. If not, you can use search to find the profile of the manager. On that profile there is a button to send a message)

Daniel, I don't like profiles set to Private more than you seems to do, and I have only set my profiles Private if the person is still liivng. But there have been a lot of talk, mainly from americans, that they didn't like the profiles of their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on for everyone to see. Me personally don't understand this point, this is after all a genealogical collaborative site, then why hinder the collaboration, I ask my self. But that is the main reason why two PROs can't merge profiles, because at least one of them are set to private. Then you have to be inside the family to be able to do the merge.

Remi - re: "this is after all a genealogical collaborative site" -- it is also a Family Social-Networking Site - many folks use mainly for Genealogy, but many folks use mainly for sharing (birthdates, photos, etc.) and intereracting with family.

In case it helps in some way, the topics of these three Discussions are very similar.

1. http://www.geni.com/discussions/102404 "Free users become Paid users when......"

2. http://www.geni.com/discussions/102255 "Geni's PROs Vs. the rest of Geni's members"

3. http://www.geni.com/discussions/99067 ". . . a single, collaborative world family tree . . ."

So. Lois, what has that to do with setting the profiles of dead people to private? The family-social networking part of Geni is in fact diminishing, since most people prefer the instant messaging of Facebook, Twitter i.e. And the sharing you describe is among living people, and those can be set to private, but why hinder genealogy by setting your gg-grandfather private, Lois?

Remi - re: "what has that to do with setting the profiles of dead people to private?" -- a partial list:
1)The Profiles of Dead People include info on others - including in Timeline, and often in About, info on their Children -- quite possibly including the date and place of their birth, possibly other info as well. So unless there is a buffer generation of Deceased not made Public, you are making Public info on the living!
2) The elderly are the most vulnerable to Scams - and the most likely to be siblings and/or children of Deceased people - whose Profiles you would like to make Public, thus endangering these elderly.
3) Info Family choose to enter for sharing with Family about their ancestors is not always info they want shared with others. Relatives who were known to relatives I knew should, I feel, be respected, including sharing the memories told to me only with family, unless those telling me are comfortable with the world being told.
4) One of my cousins had a child die before her first birthday - over 50 years ago - but when I mentioned this child (hoping to get dates to enter on the Tree), I was immediately cut off with "that is too painful to think about". For other people it is a more recent death - of an adult child or etc. - that they find references to to be upsetting. I do not want to hurt my relatives by making it more likely they will be asked about losses they are not ready to talk about.

And you are still talking about the first and second generation after the dead ones. I have seen private profiles up to 5 generations before the profileowner, and the private profile was of someone born before 1800.

I can see your points, Lois, I don't agree to all of them, but that is how things are. The knowledge of children that died young around 1960 will be public knowledge 50 years from know, but then their parents are probably dead, but a few siblings may still be living.

I would prefer to have the information in my genealogy, but be careful about what info I make public. Then the info would be on Geni (or at least in my own private genealogical software), and others could ask my permission to see the info, or I could tell them some of the info.

I don't know why this public/private issue keeps surfacing. Geni's goals on this have not changed since it's inception. These are clearly stated in http://www.geni.com/company/privacy.

Geni messed this up in August. Prior to that, i had all deceased relatives as Public on MY tree. The world could view, but not alter MY tree unless collaborating. Since August i must also give the world permission to alter MY tree if I want them to look at it. The damage was immediate.

The stated objective of Geni remains to have individually managed family trees, linked together to form the world tree.

To protect the tree from Pro's, the members I was collaborating with have done the same as myself and changed their part of the tree to Private. I can't collaborate anymore.

Geni caused this situation by giving unlimited capabilities to Pro members.

Instead of asking why people keep profiles private, shouldn't you be asking why did Geni feel it necessary to give Pro members right to massacre other peoples carefully researched trees?

Then those doing the massacres need to get educated in how to do genealogy, and we need to tell them that.

It's not the softwares fault that people doesn't know what they are doing, it's the people them selves. If I see anybody doing something strange to one of the profiles I have contact with, I ask them. And if they are doing things wrong, in a genealogical sence, I try to teach them what to do.

People not going about doing their genealogy correctly, need to told that they are doing something wrong, and that is not possible if everyone keep their profiles private.

If you're not going to let a single person access to your profiles, then Geni will not be any different then a common offline genealogical software, and then the purpose of Geni is gone.

Your last paragraph says it all - the world had access to my tree before August.

It is the fault of Geni. I've had timeline events altered, documents removed, with no notification from geni. Even Mike Stangel tells me there is no way of finding who does this - Geni only monitors the basic details of a profile.

Family trees are built on collaboration. Geni is the exception. A Pro can alter anything without collaboration, and the manager of that part of the tree will not necessarily be advised.

To use my expression use earlier, Geni has become a communal repository, nothing more. As soon as you remove collaboration, that is all that is left.

Yes Remi, the purpose of Geni has gone. As soon as Geni introduced non-collaboration as a feature in August, Geni's goals were defeated.

Then I suggest you mainly use your offline software.

I am finding new distant cousins every week, and new persons and information to include in my search for descendants after a couple living in the mid 1500'.

So I still find a purpose.

I'm sure you don't need to alter your distant cousins profiles, and I doubt that you do. Geni feels that you should be able to do that - without collaboration.

If you attempted that, your distant cousins profiles would be made private very quickly.

As the various discussions show, Pro's are annoyed that more of the tree is being made private. At some stage they will realise that it is their new capabilities that is causing this to happen.

(sorry for Caps Lock but I think it is that important)

PRO MEMBERS - PLEASE DO NOT MERGE WITH ANY PROFILES UNLESS _ALL_ MANAGERS OF THAT PROFILE ARE ALSO PRO MEMBERS OR ARE ALREADY OVER 1,000 FAMILY MEMBERS.

I just was proposing a merge and realized that if the person whose tree I was going to connect to only had a few dozen profiles, I would be blocking them from adding any additional profiles unless they become Plus/Pro. After checking I saw that they already are over the 1000 limit, so I went ahead and made the request. But I see this as potentially extraordinarily burdensome to have to verify for every potential merge. It might be a good idea to not perform ANY merges unless the profile is already connected to the World Tree.